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TOPIC: Have I been Sacked?

Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340354

  • Gagakev
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Had a heated discussion today with the MD of the company I work for, been there 7 years as a contract's manager, I  had reason to visit the main branch where he is mainly located to collect a lorry load of materials and return them back to the depot I run. As soon as I arrived he ORDERED me to the office for which I replied I would like to load first, but oh no OFFICE FIRST, so off I trot following him, his voice was then raised about a certain contract we have, (bear in mind he set the programme and I was following it to the T) the lads on site changed the programme of works!! and it was my fault!! 
After taking about 5 mins of his vebal I retaliated, then he gave me even more, so I decided that before I punch his lights out I would walk out and load my lorry and dissapear, then I get both barrell's IF YOU
WALK OUT, JUST GET IN THAT
LORRY AND ---- --- LEAVE YOUR
KEYS IN THE OFFICE AND CLEAR YOUR DESK, I then told him he had an attitude problem, smiled got in the lorry and went back to the yard only to find him there on my return, so I didnt speak to him and duly started to clear my desk. He then said I have got to do this right and as we have a witness  ( my supervisor) it will stand up in court, you are suspended forewith.  
I thought you sacked me on the spot?
Give me keys and phone, supervisor (great bloke) then said why dont you two take a cooling off period and discuss it on monday morning?
MD then said I with draw your suspension, a meeting will take place on Monday, so I left work and headed home.
But my theroy in all this is he sacked me, then suspended me without with out withdrawing the sacking, then withdrew the suspension,and gave us a cooling off period
What are your thoughts?
 
 
Sir Gagakev WC (2BAR)



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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340355

  • forestgump
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there is a route of warnings verble and writen  

tabbert paganini and robin reliant 3x3
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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340356

  • Gagakev
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forest gump wrote:
there is a route of warnings verble and writen  
I can just see the wording on the written one, I SACKED HIM BECAUSE I VERBALLY ABUSED HIM.
 
Sir Gagakev WC (2BAR)



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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340357

  • forestgump
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it is not so easy to sack someone unless the right route has been taken if you take  advice .

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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340358


Gagakev, are you a member of a union or do you have access via any insurances to legal advice? See what happens on Monday and get clarification on the nature of the meeting,is it formal and filed.Have you had your options explained and been offered a representaive of your choice to accompany you.In my time in employment when conducting a formal disciplinary meeting a member of the HR team had to attend to take notes. Before the meeting take the time to write down everything you can about the exchange you had with the MD.Hopefully all will go well but if you are not satisfied you can consult ACAS for advice. Stay calm,listen carefully and do not interrupt.The reason for having a person with you is because they are not so emotionally involved and better able to stay calm.Try not to discuss the problem with people you work with unless you think they can be of real assistance.
       Hopefully it is just a storm in a teacup and a case of two people sabre rattling. MD must be under a great deal of pressure to conduct himself in such an unprofessional manner but we are all just human beings.
                                               Good Luck and remember Calm and Controlled!!!
                                                            Thursdays Child
 
 
 
 
 

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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340359

  • RogerB
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Go on the ACAS website and you will see the exact procedure that he has to follow.You will then be in a strong position when you next meet.
Roger
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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340360

  • Parksy
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Hi Kev
This situation was not of your making and from what you've told us it would appear that there is some sort of misunderstanding between the MD and yourself over an altered contract.
During heated discussions things are sometimes said in anger and blame wrongly apportioned and the cooling off period will give the MD a chance to re-assess the situation and cool off, and it will give you a chance to prepare your facts so that you can respond to the situation coolly and calmly and without wanting to punch someone's lights out.
Did anybody witness the original shouting match where the MD said that if you walked out you could hand in your keys and clear your desk?
It looks to me as though the supervisor who suggested the suspension may have mentioned to the MD that he was acting in haste and therefore illegally because if you are employed by this company the MD obviously hasn't followed any kind of disciplinary procedure and the supervisor knows this.
The MD behaved unprofessionally, like some sort of Victorian mill owner, and he has probably breached this procedure so after speaking with the supervisor has had to withdraw whatever was imposed in anger and haste, therefore you are not sacked.
If possible have your own witness with you when you attend Monday's meeting, if this is not possible insist on others being present but above all, whatever happens stay completely calm and clear headed and if you are to be disciplined then make sure that the company procedure is followed to the letter in case you need to seek a judgement from an industrial tribunal at some later stage either as a result of this or some future incident when past evidence will be heard.
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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340361


ACAS helpline is open Sat until 13.00hrs
08457 47 47 47.
                                     Thursdays Child

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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340362

  • Robtel
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As already suggested ACAS helpline is good, I have used the employer's section of this on several occasions in my own line of work.
Also you should have an employment contract which might have a section detailing your company's disciplinary policy, if not there then your company should have a separate disciplinary policy and procedure, get a hold of that and see what your employer has written down regarding procedure to be followed. It normally gives details of what behaviour/actions are deemed disciplinary and what level e.g minor or gross misconduct and exactly what procedures need to be followed before actions can be taken.
Going on what you have said in your original post your senior has not acted in a professional manner, he seems to have decide in advance that whatever has happened was your fault, he does not appear to have conducted any form of investigation, he did not inform you he was conducting an investigation into wrong doing, if he felt you were guilty of gross or serious misconduct worthy of dismissal he should have suspended you "without predudice" pending investigation and a properly conducted disciplinary meeting when you would have the opportunity to be accompanied by a colleague or trade union representative. In short I feel that if he were to go ahead on Monday with your dismissal you have very good reasons to go to tribunal, I don't think he has followed anything like proper procedure.
Someone earlier mentioned that as MD he must be under a lot of pressure, while that may be true, in his position he should be well aware of the way he conducts himself. You also mention in original post you are contracts manager and that changes had been made by other workers in the yard and that you were being blamed for that, if I read it correctly. Are you the Line Manager for these employees? if yes then unfortunately you will have some responsibility for their actions unless you can show they were working in direct contradiction to your instructions and without your knowledge.
Hopefully by Monday things will have cooled off and the MD will offer the apology I feel you deserve.
Good Luck
Robert
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Have I been Sacked? 3 years 2 weeks ago #340363

  • Gagakev
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Thursdays Child wrote:
Gagakev, are you a member of a union or do you have access via any insurances to legal advice? See what happens on Monday and get clarification on the nature of the meeting,is it formal and filed.Have you had your options explained and been offered a representaive of your choice to accompany you.In my time in employment when conducting a formal disciplinary meeting a member of the HR team had to attend to take notes. Before the meeting take the time to write down everything you can about the exchange you had with the MD.Hopefully all will go well but if you are not satisfied you can consult ACAS for advice. Stay calm,listen carefully and do not interrupt.The reason for having a person with you is because they are not so emotionally involved and better able to stay calm.Try not to discuss the problem with people you work with unless you think they can be of real assistance.
       Hopefully it is just a storm in a teacup and a case of two people sabre rattling. MD must be under a great deal of pressure to conduct himself in such an unprofessional manner but we are all just human beings.
                                               Good Luck and remember Calm and Controlled!!!
                                                            Thursdays Child
Hi TC nice to see you back with us after your mamoth jaunt

No I am not a member of a union, and obviously as contract manager I have to know  a certain amount about the disiplinary procedures, so I know he is in the wrong. I have not discussed any of this with anyone at work, only close family and of course the supervisor.
This is actually the second time this has happened with him using the same kind of language the first time around, dont get me wrong, I am no prude, in the construction industry it is widely used. But you and I know there is a time and place.
Like you I hope it is a storm in a tea cup and a solution is found even if it gives me time to look else where, I really dont want to work for a guy like him. There are other reason's for saying this as well but they are not part of this current situation. 
 
Sir Gagakev WC (2BAR)



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