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TOPIC: MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate.

MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450849

  • ProfJohnL
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camel wrote:
If caravans , horseboxes and the like came under the DSA and had to have a mot stuck on them it would be a problem solved in my view but I'm one for less meddling by the DSA after being pulled more times than I can remember over the years,

I don't understand how having an MOT would resolve the MTPLM issue we've been discussing. Can you enlighten us please?
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450850

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Prof, top of the morning to you on this fine day,
It's just my view that braked trailers that are under 3500kgs like caravans , horse boxes, cattle trailers etc, should come under the same regs like trailers that weigh over 3500kgs at the same time caravans trailers under 3500kgs should have a DSA/ministry weight plate, which would carry the information of the trailers MAM/GVW plus Tare weight and pay load, very straight rather that all the caravanning gobbledegook on weights,a caravan comes out the factory with a axle weight of say 1500 kgs, the caravan is then weighed for a tare lets say 1200kgs this then leaves a pay load of 300kgs which is all your bits and bobs spare wheel motrormover etc, I forgot the dreaded nose weight, that will go off whatever the towing vehicles nose weight is and if the caravan exceeds the nose weight just the pay load accordingly, MOT's on caravans and trailers would be the best thing that ever happened at least it would prove that the caravan at the time was in a roadworthy condition rather than some of the rubbish that is stored at the storage facility I use,
Last Edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by camel.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450851

  • otherclive
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camel wrote:
Prof, top of the morning to you on this fine day,
It's just my view that braked trailers that are under 3500kgs like caravans , horse boxes, cattle trailers etc, should come under the same regs like trailers that weigh over 3500kgs at the same time caravans trailers under 3500kgs should have a DSA/ministry weight plate, which would carry the information of the trailers MAM/GVW plus Tare weight and pay load, very straight rather that all the caravanning gobbledegook on weights,a caravan comes out the factory with a axle weight of say 1500 kgs, the caravan is then weighed for a tare lets say 1200kgs this then leaves a pay load of 300kgs which is all your bits and bobs spare wheel motrormover etc, I forgot the dreaded nose weight, that will go off whatever the towing vehicles nose weight is and if the caravan exceeds the nose weight just the pay load accordingly, MOT's on caravans and trailers would be the best thing that ever happened at least it would prove that the caravan at the time was in a roadworthy condition rather than some of the rubbish that is stored at the storage facility I use,

Whilst I agree that a simpler system of weight plating would be of benefit rather than the complex arrangements which define payload (essential, habitation etc) there’s no evidence that annual caravan MoT would aid road safety. If you do a web search you will find that this was looked at a few years back by the UK, European Commission and EU Parliament. The conclusions were that there was minimal cost benefit. Caravans are involved in a low accident rate, the road worthiness of the caravan had negligible effect on the accident rate. Major causes being badly matched outfit, speed, driver error, and of course overloaded or poorly distributed load. None of which would be prevented by an MoT. So how would your suggestion be implemented to show improvements to road safety? Might it not be simpler to require a mandatory annual service at an approved NCC service Center and to display the sticker? Or better still leave a system that seems to be working well alone and concentrate on driver training and education?
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Last Edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by otherclive.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450852

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camel wrote:
Prof, top of the morning to you on this fine day,
It's just my view that braked trailers that are under 3500kgs like caravans , horse boxes, cattle trailers etc, should come under the same regs like trailers that weigh over 3500kgs at the same time caravans trailers under 3500kgs should have a DSA/ministry weight plate, which would carry the information of the trailers MAM/GVW plus Tare weight and pay load, very straight rather that all the caravanning gobbledegook on weights,a caravan comes out the factory with a axle weight of say 1500 kgs, the caravan is then weighed for a tare lets say 1200kgs this then leaves a pay load of 300kgs which is all your bits and bobs spare wheel motrormover etc, I forgot the dreaded nose weight, that will go off whatever the towing vehicles nose weight is and if the caravan exceeds the nose weight just the pay load accordingly, MOT's on caravans and trailers would be the best thing that ever happened at least it would prove that the caravan at the time was in a roadworthy condition rather than some of the rubbish that is stored at the storage facility I use,

The information that must be displayed on the statutory plate is laid down in detail in existing regulations and they apply to all road vehicles, whether motor vehicle or trailer. Caravans are no exception. There is no legal requirement for the tare weight or the payload to be plated. On the other hand, the MTPLM, the max. noseweight and the maximum allowable axle loads must be shown. In the case of a motor vehicle which may be used for towing, the permissible gross train weight must also be shown.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450853

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Clive , I think we have seen caravans that should not be on the road also caravanners with no idea of load distribution just by looking at their outfits, the problem with MOT's either on trucks, cars LGV trailers is that the they hardly make any money out of it, last week I had my car MOT'ed and it cost me £34.00 not much profit in that when overheads are taken out, but I still think there should be an annual test or a test every two years on braked trailers because of the mechanics involved in the hitch, braking system suspension and tyres, you can go and buy your caravan and never put a spanner or bit of grease on it for the next ten years,take note I do stop at putting a road tax on caravans because I think we pay for that with the extra fuel we put in the tank,
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450857

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I agree in principle with Camel, but but as Clive has pointed out, there considerable challenges to getting a workable system. It would need each trailer to be registered and to carry a visible unique identifier, that would require central Government to set up the services, or at least extend the remit of the DSA or DVLA. In some EU countries this is already the case.

Trailer MOTs would have to be carried out at regulated sites. This could be existing MOT stations, or perhaps at trailer specialists such as caravan service centres. It's important to note that the MOT would only look at the trailers running gear, and general body work, not at habitation or other specifics such as gas electrics water etc. Simple allowing it to be assessed by a service technician with unknown training or ability is not a good way if you are looking for confirmed performance.

You can bet there's some be a charge for this.

Would this prevent RTIs? - no. Would it stop badly matched outfits? - no. Because those are basically down to driver decisions and experience.

As for road fund tax, I am a long term believer that it should be loaded onto fuel, rather than a separate inequitable system we have at the moment. By loading fuel, those who wear out our roads the most by shear distance or by the weight, will pay a fairer share of the tax burden. it's virtually impossible to avoid paying, even for overseas visitors. Oh and before the HGV lobby start to shout "unfair" most of the wear on our roads is due to the weight of vehicles such as HGV's moving the surface, causing cracks that allows water in and frost does the rest to detach the surface allowing it break up.

However, the transport landscape is changing, electric vehicles, so as their proportion increases as it will, there will have to be some means of collecting revenue from them, so we're likely to see annual RFT remain.
Unless I use quotes, All advice and opinions given are my own and are given in good faith. Never act on anything you read on a forum unless you can validate and verify its source and content.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450858

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But the issue of MOTs is completely different to that of overloading. Assuming that there were such a thing as an MOT on caravans in the UK, a caravan is unlikely to be submitted to an MOT in a laden condition, so the way it is loaded, or even overloaded, would never be reflected in such a test.

However, the visible unique identifier of a caravan that would be necessary for an MOT, already exists. It is the VIN which every caravan, at least those built since the introduction of whole vehicle type approval, carries on its statutory plate.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450862

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Lutz, i'm making two points one mot's and the other a clarification of identifiing the gross , tare and payload of a caravan and put in one place on the caravan regardless of make inside a locker so we all know where to look for the information.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450864

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Despite investigating accidents for many years I have not seen an accident that may have been caused by a defective caravan, in general those running near or over the 100% figure appear most frequently. There must be the odd one caused by defective caravans but they are so minor that the cost of MOT's or similar is not in my view justified.
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MTPLM Sticker/chassis plate. 5 months 3 weeks ago #450865

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Raywood wrote:
Despite investigating accidents for many years I have not seen an accident that may have been caused by a defective caravan, in general those running near or over the 100% figure appear most frequently. There must be the odd one caused by defective caravans but they are so minor that the cost of MOT's or similar is not in my view justified.
r

That's exactly the conclusion that the investigations involving UK authorities and EU ones came too. The cost benefits were not any way near positive. One conclusion being that if countries wished to introduce such schemes as registration and/or testing they would be introduced as domestic legislation.
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