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TOPIC: External gas bottles

External gas bottles 2 weeks 5 days ago #471956

  • waffler
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On rallies and temporary holiday sites without EHU I have used a 13kg propane bottle standing outside the gas locker. I always thought that as long as it was stable and under 15 kg it was within the rules. Just left a THS with my bottle. Steward asked me if I knew the rules as he had just read that it might be against the rules. This was meant as enquiring rather criticism of me. I looked on the C and CC website and found that it probably is. It says if there is a good reason one up to 15 kg may be positioned outside as long as it strapped to the caravan etc. It cites the example of no gas locker. So by implication if you have a locker then no external bottles. It applies to all club events. It is apparently for safety reasons.
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 5 days ago #471961

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The rule about external cylinders has been in force for a long time, and as you have suggested it is for safety reasons that is frowned upon to use external cylinders.
I could give you chapter and verse about why gas cylinders should be inside the gas locker, but I wont !!!

The main reason is to prevent tampering with the cylinder and security of the cylinders.
Another is to avoid a cylinder falling over, or the strap being cut and deliberately laid flat and the van receiving liquid gas inside and the resulting huge flame that would produce.
And of course to stop the theft of the cylinder.

I know people do have external cylinders, but that does not make it right.
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472040

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My understanding is that gas bottles upto and including? 19kg are classed as free standing. So they are ok. I seem to remember that about 10 years ago a similar questions was asked in the CC magazine, there was much umming and arhhing but conclusion was there was nothing illegal in the practise. This is theoretical for me as I can get 2 x 13kg gas bottles in the locker should I want to.
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472041

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C&CC :( sites, rallies and THS limit the use of secured free standing lpg bottles to 15kg where the caravan has no internal gas storage locker
Free standing lpg bottles of any size for use with gas barbecues are prohibited
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472043

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Parksy wrote:
C&CC :( sites, rallies and THS limit the use of secured free standing lpg bottles to 15kg where the caravan has no internal gas storage locker
Free standing lpg bottles of any size for use with gas barbecues are prohibited

Parksy

So would a small Campingaz butane R904/907 bottle for use with the Cadac be prohibited too? If so how do campers get on? Or would use with a cooker be allowed?
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472048

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Regardless of what legal regulations might apply, you are using a site which has the right to apply any requirements they choose over and above any national regulations.

Free standing bottles can cause problems. and they can be a safety danger.
Unless I use quotes, All advice and opinions given are my own and are given in good faith. Never act on anything you read on a forum unless you can validate and verify its source and content.
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472050

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ProfJohnL wrote:
Regardless of what legal regulations might apply, you are using a site which has the right to apply any requirements they choose over and above any national regulations.

Free standing bottles can cause problems. and they can be a safety danger.

I fully appreciate that a site owner can specify their own requirements which may be more restrictive than the legal ones. But my question was to Parksy who is a regular CCC attendee and I was just querying whether campers at local meets or THS are banned from using free standing gas bottles as used by camping cookers or CADAC. Guess they could always rely on meths /paraffin or petrol stoves ! These in my early years presented far more risk than a dumpy 1.8-3.9 kg bottle of butane. Everything can be a safety danger if used incorrectly but life would be incredibly dull if the H&S brigade had their way. And this from a professional engineer who set up a Safety and Environmental consultancy, but we wouldn’t touch those topics which are bread and butter to so many poorly qualified proponents of the art who basically seek to cover every risk with signage and prohibitions.
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Last Edit: 2 weeks 3 days ago by otherclive.
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472052

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otherclive wrote:
ProfJohnL wrote:
Regardless of what legal regulations might apply, you are using a site which has the right to apply any requirements they choose over and above any national regulations.

Free standing bottles can cause problems. and they can be a safety danger.

I fully appreciate that a site owner can specify their own requirements which may be more restrictive than the legal ones. But my question was to Parksy who is a regular CCC attendee and I was just querying whether campers at local meets or THS are banned from using free standing gas bottles as used by camping cookers or CADAC. Guess they could always rely on meths /paraffin or petrol stoves ! These in my early years presented far more risk than a dumpy 1.8-3.9 kg bottle of butane. Everything can be a safety danger if used incorrectly but life would be incredibly dull if the H&S brigade had their way. And this from a professional engineer who set up a Safety and Environmental consultancy, but we wouldn’t touch those topics which are bread and butter to so many poorly qualified proponents of the art who basically seek to cover every risk with signage and prohibitions.
Ridiculous. We are professional campers and caravanners of many years standing. I have a gas portable single burner stove that uses a butane cartridge. Is that unacceptable too. I’m all for being safe but for heavens sake can we bypass the Nanny state. Clive, probably like you I grew up on sites where Tilley lamps and primus stoves were used. Remember heating the Primus burner with meths and then pumping the paraffin through.
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472062

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I haven't been on a C&CC rally for a while now, but I think that the intention of the rule was to deter attendees from using the large free standing lpg bottles with the inherent danger of one of them falling onto a child.
As for the very small butane containers for barbecues or outside stoves, the C&CC website states that they are not allowed.
As someone who has acted as a rally steward, a bit of common sense has to come into play, and a blind eye is often turned for smaller outdoor appliances.
I wonder what position an insurance company would take in the event of a mishap though?
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External gas bottles 2 weeks 3 days ago #472063

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Don't shoot the messenger, if you have a problem with a sites rules take it up with the site. I was pointing out that sites can and do impose site rules that may be tighter than national regulations.
Unless I use quotes, All advice and opinions given are my own and are given in good faith. Never act on anything you read on a forum unless you can validate and verify its source and content.
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