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TOPIC: Caravan Stability 2

Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443509

  • JohnMW
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Hi every one,
This subject goes on forever and I have been monitoring it. Some of the respondents I recognise from other sites and we have had lots of exchanges on this subject most of which are based on the common beliefs of experienced caravan owners. As a qualified Transport Engineer of some 40 years I had designed a system I called the Differential Stability system over 20 years ago. I studied the problem using Calculus -derivatives and integrals and worked out actually what caused the uncontrolled lateral sway. I then produced a prototype to prove the concept and for the last 6 years I have toured France with it and subjected it to moderate poor loading, high speeds (80mph in France) during that time I have never experienced a (snake) have survived a 40 degree jackknife under full control and endured high side winds in heavy traffic. I have not patented it but have offered it to the majors who have not responded to my correspondence. No one has seen the device because I keep it under wraps so I can only describe what it does. The secret to the success is that it uses no electronics and can apply an equal and opposite force at the centre of equilibrium and is proactive in that it stops a snake before it starts - it does not interfere with. the normal overrun brakes and will never shut off on rough roads, costs about £200 and will retrofit any caravan or trailer. I will donate my van and the device free to any reputable company who can take it to market - with some conditions.
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443510

  • Dustydog
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JohnMW wrote:
Hi every one,
This subject goes on forever and I have been monitoring it. Some of the respondents I recognise from other sites and we have had lots of exchanges on this subject most of which are based on the common beliefs of experienced caravan owners. As a qualified Transport Engineer of some 40 years I had designed a system I called the Differential Stability system over 20 years ago. I studied the problem using Calculus -derivatives and integrals and worked out actually what caused the uncontrolled lateral sway. I then produced a prototype to prove the concept and for the last 6 years I have toured France with it and subjected it to moderate poor loading, high speeds (80mph in France) during that time I have never experienced a (snake) have survived a 40 degree jackknife under full control and endured high side winds in heavy traffic. I have not patented it but have offered it to the majors who have not responded to my correspondence. No one has seen the device because I keep it under wraps so I can only describe what it does. The secret to the success is that it uses no electronics and can apply an equal and opposite force at the centre of equilibrium and is proactive in that it stops a snake before it starts - it does not interfere with. the normal overrun brakes and will never shut off on rough roads, costs about £200 and will retrofit any caravan or trailer. I will donate my van and the device free to any reputable company who can take it to market - with some conditions.
Hi John,
Assuming you are not a Troll have you considered talking to The Dragons Den for financial support to bring your invention to the market?
Sir Dustydog (BAR) TS .Woosie Round Table
Properly trained, man can be dog's best friend.
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443677

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Hi DustyDog,
I assure you I am not a troll. As an engineer and operator (Retired) I have more time to devote to problems that seem to go on and on with no apparent solution. I am also one of the most inspirational person you could meet on the subject of technology so much so my son has a masters degree in electronics etc. So it may seem odd that I should perfect a purely mechanical solution to a caravan anti-snake device. I can justify this very simply. Uncontrolled snake is a complex subject that few have fully understood. The best solutions without a control system are fully covered in all the previous posts and most are valid. However, from much research I found that almost every caravan owner has had some experience of this phenomenon and they know how to feel for it before it gets out of control. So would it not be great if one could just hitch up and go with the knowledge that it is like driving your car without the stress. This system can be connected in under 10 seconds and it can sense every reaction of the tow car - Pitch, speed, poor roads and poor loading. it requires no electrical connection and only adds 10.kg to the van and it will never shut down when a problem occurs since there is nothing to go wrong. It does this without any special tow car, however, it works with much higher integrity and control if the tow car has ESP since the van operates on each individual wheel just the same as that magic ESP on the car and the two work together like bread and butter. So why would the likes of BPW and Alko not take an interest? If it does not do all I say they could just walk away. Now I don't need the money so unless someone shows an interest or finds out how my system works then it will die with me.
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by JohnMW. Reason: missed word
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443678

  • otherclive
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JohnMw
It sounds interesting but do you have any videos that show it’s capabilty under demo conditions. But not showing your proprietary intellectual property.
Subaru Forester XT 240 bhp, carrying two Springers and towing a Sprite Musketeer TD 2013.
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443683

  • Dustydog
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John
Die or not you will be wise to take out a patent on your invention.
May I suggest you try and talk to engineering gurus, entrepreneurs, like Sir James Dyson. I fully understand you can't say much on here. But if you can do what Clive suggests it may help.
Sir Dustydog (BAR) TS .Woosie Round Table
Properly trained, man can be dog's best friend.
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443685

  • ProfJohnL
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Obviously I have not seen the product, and it is not fair to prejudge anything without being able to make a fair assessment of it, But I cannot ignore the inventors published claims which are exceptional to the point of being unbelievable! I am firm believer in the adage of "The best designs are the simplest" but it is not the same to say "the simplest designs are the best"
JohnMW wrote:
...a purely mechanical solution to a caravan anti-snake device...
This system can be connected in under 10 seconds and it can sense every reaction of the tow car - Pitch, speed, poor roads and poor loading. it requires no electrical connection and only adds 10.kg to the van and it will never shut down when a problem occurs since there is nothing to go wrong. It does this without any special tow car, however, it works with much higher integrity and control if the tow car has ESP since the van operates on each individual wheel just the same as that magic ESP on the car and the two work together like bread and butter...

I have yet to see a 100% reliable mechanical system.

As as John statesJohnMW wrote:
...Uncontrolled snake is a complex subject that few have fully understood...

History has shown it is very very VERY rare that such a complex set of issue can have a non invasive, simple to fit, system to overcome such a complex set of input factors and that can produce an effective control solution.

Just from a simple mechanical perspective of the information already given, the implication is that somehow the added system will independently of the normal brakes, apply the brakes on the trailer's wheels in response to the outfits behaviour. That must require a second braking system of some description, and as we know brakes do wear out, and as they get older they can malfunction. Also they will require some form of energy to cause the brakes to apply, Where does it get that energy?
JohnMW wrote:
....So why would the likes of BPW and Alko not take an interest? If it does not do all I say they could just walk away. Now I don't need the money so unless someone shows an interest or finds out how my system works then it will die with me.

Your thousands of miles without incidence frankly proves nothing, its the details of the number of incidents that arose where the system acted, that would be a more useful presentation.

I find it incredibly hard to believe the likes of Al-Ko or BPW would pass by the opportunity to acquire a technology that made towing trailers much easier. If the system was as good or even half as effective as JohnMW claims, these companies or others would be fighting over it, either to exploit it or to bury it to protect their own technological investments in similar systems.

Perhaps the likes of Al-Ko and BPW have seen the scheme and spotted some flaws that the inventor has not? and as the John suggests they have "walked away" I am left wondering if this is similar the the "Tyre Band" products where it's efficacy is more in the mind than in real life.

If the chassis manufactures aren't interested, have you tried caravan mover manufacturers? They have the knowledge to make sure a product will not compromise the chassis designs, They have proven routes to market in a similar field, and most would welcome another key product that makes caravanning more accessible.

It really isn't fair to start making claims about having found the holy grail of towing aids and then complaining in a public forum about how manufacturers of related products are not interested, then threatening to take the secret to the grave when no money is not the sticking point.

JohnMW please open my mind and prove me wrong.
Unless I use quotes, All advice and opinions given are my own and are given in good faith. Never act on anything you read on a forum unless you can validate and verify its source and content.
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443695

  • camel
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Hi John, what you describe sounds like something called 'The Hope Anti Jackknife' and was mainly fitted to fuel tankers, it was a mechanical device and was around in the 60's and 70's and did exactly what it said on the tin stopped lorries jackknifing, long before any kind of ATC or ABS came on the scene, am I getting warm,
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443705

  • DrZhivago
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JohnMW wrote:
No one has seen the device because I keep it under wraps so I can only describe what it does. .... I will donate my van and the device free to any reputable company who can take it to market - with some conditions.
I once worked for London Transport and one of my occasional and lighter tasks was to look at technical ideas and "inventions" submitted from members of the public, hopefully for LT to adopt. I put "inventions" in quotes because most of these ideas had never got beyond the back-of-an-envelope stage, perhaps understandable as not many members of the public (except Elon Musk) are in a position to trial a revolutionary type of train for example; I tried to keep an open mind and give a fair report to our Chief Mechanical Engineer, but TBH none I saw were very practical. JohnMW's idea sounds like it has got beyond that, but companies like Alco will need far more than a piece of correspondence to take up an interest.

It is difficult, I know from seeing it at first hand. You will need to obtain the support of an industry insider, and be ready and open with demonstrations, videos, salesmanship etc. You will get nowhere by keeping it "under wraps". It is almost like political campagning, requiring money and charisma as well as the technical know-how. Patenting is a minefield BTW.

Look what Charles Parsons did at the Spithead Naval Review, in order to get his steam turbine noticed by the Admiralty ! :-

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbinia
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443706

  • Dustydog
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Camel, possible but no longer made and as you say all the electronic stuff has taken over.
The Hope system I think only operated under braking conditions not towing as such.
Sir Dustydog (BAR) TS .Woosie Round Table
Properly trained, man can be dog's best friend.
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Caravan Stability 2 1 year 11 months ago #443710

  • camel
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Dusty, correct, no longer made but a good bit of kit at the time, but that was the idea of the Hope to work under braking condictions because that is when a jackknifed happened (normally) and actually the mechanics of the Hope had nothing to do with the brakes locking up once it felt movement between unit and trailer at speed there was a censor that activated locking pads on the fifth wheel mounting( that's the bit that connects the unit with the trailer), why do posts on here seem to get taken out of subject, Brian has a good idea but he wants to keep it himself for the moment, but why his post is taken apart by certain people who say that it can't be any good because non of the manufacturers don't want to know about it ,rubbish more than likely they want it for nowt,
Moderator Note:
I've edited this post to remove antagonistic comments.
Parksy
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by Parksy. Reason: Antagonistic comment removed
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