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TOPIC: Frequency of Nose Load checks

Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464974

  • ProfJohnL
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Rather than pollute another thread. I am responding here to a comment in the New MOT Rules thread, this comment from Lappy caught my eye.
Lappy wrote:
..
Thanks for adding the link to the MoT testing of the towbar.
The point I was trying to make, was how often do people need to check the tightness of the bolts.

I don't check my caravan wheels, as they have WSL bolts fitted.
I do not check the road wheels of the car, as once they have been tightened to the correct torque figure and rechecked after a few miles (20) they should not need to be rechecked.
If I have wrongly assumed the need for rechecking is excessive, then I hold my hand up.

The same thing goes for nose weight, once is enough and you just need to remember what you have and don't add to it. The front locker should only be used as intended, which is the storage of Gas bottles and a few bits and bobs. I've seen some people with more stuff in their front locker, than there is in their wife's handbag
Regards,

Lappy

One of this forums jobs is to offer good advice, but ultimately it is always the drivers responsibility to ensue their vehicle (and any trailer in tow) is in a fully road worthy condition.

It is arguably the case that if allow any of the manufacturers load limits to be exceeded, your vehicle or outfit could be deemed to be unsafe, even though it might not be heaver than permitted.

It is a mechanical and scientific fact, if any aspect of the way a vehicle or trailer is loaded is changed, it will affect things like nose and axle loads. Most caravanners will find the way they load a caravan will produce different nose load values on outward and return journeys, simply becasue you will have used some gas, the loo may be heavier, there will most likely be less food. Clothes for washing may stowed differently You may have collected holiday memorabilia, maps, magazines etc etc etc... Whilst I agree its unlikely that any of these as individual items will make a big difference to the nose load, collectively there could be quite a shift, moving from safe to unsafe. I'm not just talking about over loading, some shifts could reduce nose load and increase the risk of instability.

Consequently just checking your nose load once, and then never bothering to do it again is shear bad advice.

It is well establish that having insufficient nose load can lead to early onset instability, so it is common practice to set a nose load towards the top of the available range. For those who aim for 90 to 95% of the available range the changes I have outlined above could very easily take the nose load to 100% or more.

Some caravanners on this and other forums have demonstrated a foolish disregard for the importance of observing nose load limits. The limits are there for an important reason. The manufacture decides if a vehicle is suitable to be used for towing. They have to set limits to make sure that whatever is hitched up is not going to cause the tow vehicle to become inherently unsafe or illegal, nor is likely to be damaged by the loads they tow.

Without going into too much detail if you have stationary mass of 1kg and subjected to gravity (an acceleration) at 1G, it produces a force of 1kg of weight. If you increase the acceleration due to some motion, then the mass will will produce a force of Mass x Acceleration. Newtons second law of motion Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Put simply. if you exceed your static nose load capacity by 10Kg that will translate to a much greater dynamic over load when subjected to the accelerations (mainly vibrations) caused by towing. When you consider that through tetsing at MIRA near Nuneaton that g forces acting on a caravan when being towed were measured and can normally reach 4G and frequently 8G and occasionally higher, overloading a static value can have serious consequences, including increased wear and tear, taking systems outside of normal expected limits, even mechanical failures.

Overloading any manufactures limits is a mugs game, so check your nose load before each trip.
Unless I use quotes, All advice and opinions given are my own and are given in good faith. Never act on anything you read on a forum unless you can validate and verify its source and content.
Last Edit: 5 months 1 week ago by Parksy. Reason: inadvertent spelling faux pas
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464978

  • otherclive
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ProfJohnL wrote:
Rather than pollute another thread. I am responding here to a comment in the New MOT Rules thread, this comment from Lappy caught my eye.
Lappy wrote:
..
Thanks for adding the link to the MoT testing of the towbar.
The point I was trying to make, was how often do people need to check the tightness of the bolts.

I don't check my caravan wheels, as they have WSL bolts fitted.
I do not check the road wheels of the car, as once they have been tightened to the correct torque figure and rechecked after a few miles (20) they should not need to be rechecked.
If I have wrongly assumed the need for rechecking is excessive, then I hold my hand up.

The same thing goes for nose weight, once is enough and you just need to remember what you have and don't add to it. The front locker should only be used as intended, which is the storage of Gas bottles and a few bits and bobs. I've seen some people with more stuff in their front locker, than there is in their wife's handbag
Regards,

Lappy

One of this forums jobs is to offer good advice, but ultimately it is always the drivers responsibility to ensue their vehicle (and any trailer in tow) is in a fully road worthy condition.

It is arguably the case that if allow any of the manufacturers load limits to be exceeded, your vehicle or outfit could be deemed to be unsafe, even though it might not be heaver than permitted.

It is a mechanical and scientific fact, if any aspect of the way a vehicle or trailer is loaded is changed, it will affect things like nose and axle loads. Most caravanners will find the way they load a caravan will produce different nose load values on outward and return journeys, simply becasue you will have used some gas, the loo may be heavier, there will most likely be less food. Clothes for washing may stowed differently You may have collected holiday memorabilia, maps, magazines etc etc etc... Whilst I agree its unlikely that any of these as individual items will make a big difference to the nose load, collectively there could be quite a shift, moving from safe to unsafe. I'm not just talking about over loading, some shits cold reduce nose load and increase the risk of instability.

Consequently just checking your nose load once, and then never bothering to do it again is shear bad advice.

It is well establish that having insufficient nose load can lead to early onset instability, so it is common practice to set a nose load towards the top of the available range. For those who aim for 90 to 95% of the available range the changes I have outlined above could very easily take the nose load to 100% or more.

Some caravanners on this and other forums have demonstrated a foolish disregard for the importance of observing nose load limits. The limits are there for an important reason. The manufacture decides if a vehicle is suitable to be used for towing. They have to set limits to make sure that whatever is hitched up is not going to cause the tow vehicle to become inherently unsafe or illegal, nor is likely to be damaged by the loads they tow.

Without going into too much detail if you have stationary mass of 1kg and subjected to gravity (an acceleration) at 1G, it produces a force of 1kg of weight. If you increase the acceleration due to some motion, then the mass will will produce a force of Mass x Acceleration. Newtons second law of motion Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Put simply. if you exceed your static nose load capacity by 10Kg that will translate to a much greater dynamic over load when subjected to the accelerations (mainly vibrations) caused by towing. When you consider that through tetsing at MIRA near Nuneaton that g forces acting on a caravan when being towed were measured and can normally reach 4G and frequently 8G and occasionally higher, overloading a static value can have serious consequences, including increased wear and tear, taking systems outside of normal expected limits, even mechanical failures.

Overloading any manufactures limits is a mugs game, so check your nose load before each trip.

Really Prof your para 3 referring to the toilet being heavier, but honestly describing why tops it all!

“***** cold”. I’ll have you know mine are all emptied prior to leaving the site irrespective of temperature :-)
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464979

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***** cold will reduce nose load :blush:
As my toilet is in the rear the Prof raises a very valid point. If you are a real Woosie then this aspect will be irelevant as a number two is a no no for some :whistle:
Jokes aside departing for home , the gas bottles will no doubt be lighter too.

I promise not to mention Reich...... :woohoo:
Sir Dustydog (BAR) TS .Woosie Round Table
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464980

  • otherclive
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Dustydog wrote:
***** cold will reduce nose load :blush:
As my toilet is in the rear the Prof raises a very valid point. If you are a real Woosie then this aspect will be irelevant as a number two is a no no for some :whistle:
Jokes aside departing for home , the gas bottles will no doubt be lighter too.

I promise not to mention Reich...... :woohoo:

Big job getting noseweight correct with a rear loo!
Skoda Superb Estate 2.0 TDi SE CR 170ps DSG 4x4 carrying two Springers, Sprite Musketeer TD 2013.
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464982

  • Niall_McIntosh
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"Big job getting noseweight correct with a rear loo! " or a big Jobby............. :whistle:
Bailey Unicorn Vigo, Volvo XC60 D5
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464985

  • otherclive
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Niall_McIntosh wrote:
"Big job getting noseweight correct with a rear loo! " or a big Jobby............. :whistle:

I wouldn’t have dared to go there :-)
Skoda Superb Estate 2.0 TDi SE CR 170ps DSG 4x4 carrying two Springers, Sprite Musketeer TD 2013.
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464987

  • Parksy
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It's no strain for me to edit the Prof's poo r spell check error :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464989

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otherclive wrote:
Niall_McIntosh wrote:
"Big job getting noseweight correct with a rear loo! " or a big Jobby............. :whistle:

I wouldn’t have dared to go there :-)
But you clearly thought about it! ;)
Bailey Unicorn Vigo, Volvo XC60 D5
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464993

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Prof, I like you too much to comment more.
Best regards. Hutch.
Safe Towing, Hutch.
Sir Were-Rabbit
Sante Fe 2014,
Coachman 560 VIP. 2013.sitting in storage.
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Frequency of Nose Load checks 5 months 1 week ago #464998

  • Brasso530
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Personally,we travel both ways with very similar weight.I check the nose weight with bathroom scales every now and again,but go off feel after that.I know some on here are horrified that I go off feel by lifting the hitch to check general weight (once I've bathroom scale checked).So ,think about this.We/most of us check the nose weight before a journey,but I have never ever seen anyone getting there measurement gauge (whatever you use)out before leaving site,and trust me I'm a nosey git :( :cheer:
2014 Kuga 2ltr tdi,2014 explore 530
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